Israel's War Strategy in the Middle East with General Amir Avivi | EP 61

Israel is facing one of the most critical moments in its history. Former IDF Brigadier General Amir Avivi joins Life Lessons with Dr. Bob to break down the real story behind the ongoing war in Gaza, Hezbollah’s weakening grip in Lebanon, and Israel’s long-term strategy for defeating Hamas.

This in-depth discussion covers why the Biden administration’s policies prolonged the war, how Trump’s return to office has changed Israel’s military and diplomatic stance, and the next moves Israel must take to secure its future. General Avivi, with unparalleled access to Israel’s top leaders, explains the real reason behind the ceasefire, the looming battle with Iran, and what the world is missing about the conflict.

Transcript

And it's very important because we have one chance with President Trump in the
coming two years to really shape the whole future for generations to come.
It's bringing a solution to the Israeli -Palestinian conflict that won't endanger
Israel, that will ensure our security and prosperity for generations.
The mainstream media gives you the impression that there is nothing good about
America. In direct contrast to that, my podcasts will prove by examples that America
has always been and still is the land of opportunity for everyone.
Welcome to another episode in the series "Life Lessons with Dr. Bob." My guest today
is Amir Avivi, a former Brigadier General in the Israel Defense Forces,
and currently the Chairman of the Israel Defense and Security Forum, or IDSF.
More on that later. We'll have a conversation about the many important events that
have occurred in the Middle East since the start of the Gaza War in October of
2023, and he'll update us on events that are occurring right now on the ground.
First, a bit of background. During his 30 years of service in the Israeli Defense
Forces, the IDF, General Levyvi held a series of increasingly senior roles,
from being the commander of various battalions to director of the office of the
chief of staff. For many years, General Levyvi was at the center of the policy
making process in both the Israeli government and in the defense establishment. After
leaving government in 2019, General Aviv founded an independent organization called the
Israel Defense and Security Forum, or IDSF. His organization has 42 ,000 members now,
including retired senior officers of the Israeli military, as well as civilians.
All of its members are staunch Zionists who believe in ensuring the security of
Israel in the Jewish people through a strong military. IDSF stands in opposition to
the small but very vocal minority of leftists in Israel who are more interested in
making compromises with Arabs than in securing the long -term safety and independence
of the Jewish state. General Aviv is here today to discuss the complex and fluid
situation in Israel, and like other pundits or commentators on the Middle East who
are often seen in the news speculating on the situation in Israel, General Avivi
doesn't speculate. He knows what's going on because he enjoys weekly access to the
highest levels in both the military and the government of Israel, up to and
including Bibi Netanyahu, the prime minister. We're fortunate that he happens to be
in the States to give us a real -time report on the many important events that are
happening in Israel and the Middle East. Welcome to the show again,
General. Great to be here. I'm very happy to be here today. Thank you, Dr. Bo.
There are so many events currently happening in the Middle East which have a direct
bearing on the security of Israel and the free world. The last time you were here,
Joe Biden was our president, and under his leadership, America poorly executed and
hastily retreated from Afghanistan, and that left our enemies emboldened.
In addition, the Biden administration spent a lot of time and energy trying to re
-enter the Iran deal, which was a dramatic 180 -degree shift from President Trump's
policy of isolating in Iran and punishing it through sanctions for its quest for
nuclear weapons and for its support of terrorism around the world. Both of those
events signaled a dramatic change in America's foreign policy, which dramatically
impacted Israel's safety. What's the current mood in both the Israeli government and
in the general public now that Trump is once again our president. I think in Israel
Trump enjoys a lot of support. I saw that around 75 % of the Israelis supported
Trump winning the elections. Which is more than the percentage of Americans who voted
for Trump even. Because is appreciate everything that President Trump did for us. He
moved the embassy to Jerusalem. He recognized the Golan Heights. He stopped this
terrible deal with Iran and put maximum pressure and sanctions. He signed four peace
agreements, a complete change of reality in the Middle East. So many things Trump
did for us. And therefore, Israelis are very excited that Trump was elected again.
And we see results immediately. We see the president standing firmly, supporting
Israel, sending us huge amounts of munitions, threatening Hamas that they need to
bring all the hostages. Without President Trump, we wouldn't have seen now the
hostages returning step by step. Maybe not all of them at once, but we're getting
back our hostages. When we spoke at late 2023, Israel had just been attacked by
Hamas, which resulted in the greatest number of Jewish civilian deaths since the
Holocaust. Israel immediately declared war on Hamas and destroyed much of northern
Gaza. Then, even against the dictates of the Biden administration,
The FF entered southern Gaza and killed thousands of terrorists, including Yaya
Sinwar, the Hamas terrorists who planned the attack on Israel. In that regard,
the war was going quite well. Israel was winning. But then, last month,
in January, Israel and Hamas agreed on a 42 -day ceasefire,
which is still in effect. From the military perspective, when one party in a
conflict is clearly winning, is it logical for that party to agree to a ceasefire?
So I want to talk about what happened to us in the last year and four months. We
started the war, you know, a horrific attack by Hamas, killing more than 1 ,200
Israelis, kidnapping 251 hostages. Israel started the war with the scarcity of
munitions and after diminishing its ground forces during the last decades.
So we had to concentrate the attack and attack in Gaza. First, while defending all
other fronts. And at the beginning, the Biden administration was fully supporting
Israel. We were withholding humanitarian aid, especially gasoline, from Hamas in order
for them not to be able to use the tunnels. But then in January 2023,
three or four months after the beginning of the war, everything changed. Suddenly,
the Biden administration started talking about the need to de -escalate, the need to
do a ceasefire, to stop, not to attack so fiercely. And one of the most terrible
things that happened is that when we needed to go into Rafah and the Egyptian
border in order to stop the endless amount of weapons coming through Egypt to Gaza,
the Biden administration said if you go in, we're going to stop sending munitions.
We might not defend you in the UN Security Council. This was a defining moment when
Prime Minister Tanyao needed to show leadership.
with Hamas, the releasement of hostages, they were demanding liters of gasoline for
hostages, not terrorists, not what we are seeing now. They needed gasoline. - And
that's to run generators so they could have electricity in the tunnels, I think.
- Exactly, and what happened was that while we were negotiating this in January, and
it seemed that we really have a real leverage on them, The Biden administration said
to the government we are demanding that you release completely The gasoline and all
the humanitarian aid and send endless amount of humanitarian aid Which basically
enabled Hamas to survive to rebuild itself to control their own people to get more
a terrorist a Fighting for them because they said to them either you fight or you
don't get food or your families won't get food. All that humanitarian aid from what
I understand that was meant for the people of Gaza was in the hands of Hamas
first. And then they distributed it based on how much you could pay or that you
have to fight. So this prolonged the war in Gaza for a very long time. We fought
ten months in Gaza. We destroyed maybe 80 percent of Hamas capabilities,
degraded them dramatically. And then...
tens of thousands of Israelis displaced taken out of their homes, spending time in
hotels and in apartments in the center of Israel. And indeed the government moved
the center of gravity from Gaza to the north. Most of the units shifted to the
north and we did an amazing attack on Hezbollah which brought Hezbollah on its knees
in two weeks. A lot of that was due to the pages, right? the pages that exploded
and disabled thousands of middle and upper level Hezbollah operative.
- Yeah, so it was an amazing combination of the pages which were done by the Mossad
and the very good intelligence, the IDF enjoyed about where are all the long range
missiles. - Were in Lebanon and Southern Lebanon. - Yeah, and Southern and Northern
Lebanon also and we launched a huge attack on all these sites
attack. So they never got to really respond about their potential,
you know, with the hundreds, the thousand rockets that everybody was talking about.
The scenarios throughout the years were that they will shoot 2 ,000, 3 ,000 rockets a
day on Tel Aviv that will see whole neighborhoods, you know, being leveled down. It
didn't happen. It didn't happen because the way Israel handled this military campaign,
and it was so successful that not only we degraded dramatically Hezbollah,
Hezbollah is nothing like it was before, but because Hezbollah was the only effective
force also in Syria maintaining the Assad regime, following that the Assad regime
fell and Syria fell and the Iranians were kicked out of Syria. Hezbollah changed the
entire map and the history and the future, not the history, the future of that
area. So we found ourselves at this stage in a situation where most of Hamas
leadership was destroyed, including Sinouar himself. Yes. Hezbala and Asarala was taken
out, Syria fell. We also did a huge attack on Iran, sending a hundred airplanes and
other capabilities, taking out almost all the right defense and also attacking some
critical nuclear sites. - Oh, I didn't know that. - Yeah, some very critical
components of their nuclear program.
And while all this was happening, Trump was elected. And this created a moment where
we were able, after a very long time, to bring Hamas into a place where they're
willing to negotiate releasing hostages. For Israelis, bringing back our hostages is
very important from a moral stance, but also an operational one, because for the
army to operate in Gaza when you have hostages, it's much more difficult. The reason
why the attack in Lebanon was so different from what we saw in Gaza throughout the
war is that in Gaza there were all areas that the IDF didn't go into because they
were
and really managed to eradicate Hamas, because we have three very clear goals in
Gaza. We need to eradicate Hamas as a governmental and military entity. We need to
bring back all the hostages. And we need to create a reality that never again,
there will be a terror army in Gaza. And if we go a step further looking at
Trump's plan, there won't be Gazans also. - We'll talk about that. But Hamas,
they're terrorists, they're horrible, but they're not stupid. They know if they give
up every hostage that then Israel is going to go back into Gaza with a vengeance.
So therefore they're not going to give up every hostage. So I don't understand. If
there's one hostage there, there'll be the same argument that we can't go into Gaza,
It can't finish the job with Hamas. So what is going on now, we have what we call
the first stage. Right.
March 1st, I think. Right. 42 days. 42 days. And in the first stage,
Israel managed brokering a deal thanks to President Trump and thanks to-- But this
was initially Biden's deal, I think. It was Biden's deal, but We couldn't make the
deal because Hamas was under the impression all the time, from May all the way to
the elections in the U .S., that at any given moment the U .S.
will make sure that the war stops. I see. So there's no motivation to release
hostages. I see. So it would have been acceptable to you earlier, even before Trump
was elected, but Hamas wouldn't accept it. I see. So Hamas wasn't accepting the
deal, and we didn't have any leverage because we couldn't stop the humanitarian aid,
we couldn't stop the gasoline. Incredible. Do you think in World War II,
did the U .S. or Britain send humanitarian aid into Germany or into Tokyo?
By the way, placing a siege It's completely adherent with international law.
Yeah, I see. There's no problem doing a siege. It's not that you are saying you'll
all die from hunger. No, you put a siege, they surrender, they say, okay, that's
it, and they get food. Right. I mean, this is a very human way instead of using
bombing, you know. Right. It has been done thousands of years. It was forced by the
Biden administration to provide not only humanitarian aid but gasoline isn't
humanitarian aid necessarily right not only gasoline cigarettes and other things that
you're not supposed to bring you know when you're fighting and they're holding our
hostages and so um so Israel managed to to broker a deal where we where Hamas
doesn't get the most important thing at once stopping the war they're releasing
hostages and the war is not stopped, then we're also controlling the Philadelphia
Corridor, which is crucial to really make sure that Hamas doesn't build itself again.
So again, for my viewers, the Philadelphia Corridor is the area between Egypt,
the Sinai, and Gaza. Is that correct? All the buildup of Hamas was done through
smuggling through the Sinai Peninsula into Gaza. And now the IDF is still in the
corridor now? - Yeah, so the IDF is controlling the corridor. We gave up one
important thing. We gave up the Nessarim corridor in the north part of Gaza,
enabling Gazans to move from the humanitarian zone in south Gaza,
back north. - But I've been to the north Gaza. It's all destroyed. It's a waste
of-- - Exactly. So many of them went back north, saw the devastation, and went back
south. I mean, there's nothing to do there. But some stayed in tents,
you know, in these areas. But this is reversible. The IDF can,
in a very short time, send them back south when the fighting is going back. So, a
part of the fact that we really released many terrorists, this is devastating.
And these were terrorists that we released that had been convicted of murder. Right?
Many of them for life, for many lives, and there were really hundreds of them,
which is really bad and dangerous, looking at building again a leadership program.
Exactly, right? These are the worst of the worst, and they're released, and now
they're carrying guns in Gaza. Right. So what is the reasoning?
I still don't get the reasoning. The reasoning is, OK, it's an opportunity to get
some hostages back, but you can't get them all back, right? They're not going to
give them all back. So what's -- They held Gillard Chalit for what, five and a
half years? So what will happen now is when stage one ends soon,
beginning of March, there are two realistic scenarios. The non -realistic scenario is
that there will be stage two Non -realistic non -realistic why because Israel is
saying in stage two you Hamas you need to leave Gaza You need to lay down your
weapons, and you need to give us all those stages So what are the chances that
they're going to do that just by us or even the president saying that they should
The chances are not high. I see what is realistic, realistic would be extending
stage one and saying, you know what, we are willing to give you one more week,
two, three, four weeks, continue giving us hostages. So as long as Hamas will
release hostages, even if it's three, four a week, even if it means two months
more, Israel will probably agree to that. There are heavy prices to pay here,
but We'll get our hostages. As this is happening, the IDF is training,
is equipping, is preparing plans. There is a change of leadership. New chief of
staff. The new chief of staff is determined to win the war decisively. He knows he
was chosen for one thing only, winning the war. And this is his big test. And he
wants to win. Irrespective of there are going to be 10 hostages, irrespective of
that. Irrespective. Now, I think that the moment Hamas will stop releasing hostages,
and this moment might be at the beginning of March, might be in April, in May, I
don't know when, at that moment the IDF is going to launch an attack. Now this
attack will probably be first air force, very strong attack signaling to Hamas and
saying look this is what awaits you You better continue releasing hostages if they
don't Do that and they don't release hostages Then the IDF will do a decisive
attack on Gaza and this time it's going to look completely Different the IDF is
going to conquer all of Gaza. The IDF is going to stop humanitarian aid. Right. And
Trump will stand behind that, I think. And when Trump says gates of hell will open,
Israel needs to translate that to operation. What does it mean on the ground?
On the ground, it means conquering Gaza, eradicating Hamas. It means stopping the
humanitarian aid, or at least directing it in a way that Hamas itself cannot get
the humanitarian aid.
Hamas, Israel, Hamas supporters, or Hamas, but certainly dedicated to the cause of
killing Jews. - Right, but I think many will choose to live, and I think it's the
human thing to do to facilitate this. I mean, I've never heard about a world where
people want to live their war zone, and they're blocked, you know. - By friendly, by
countries that should be friendly to them. - Yeah, and the world doesn't say
anything, you know. - Oh, Everybody says a terrible plight, but nobody says come on
in. Yeah, I mean, you know, in the world between Russia and Ukraine, eight million
Ukrainians chose to leave Ukraine. Nobody blocked their way out. Nobody told them you
cannot get out of Ukraine. No, you need to stay and be bombarded by the Russians.
But the world, why is it behaving like that to the Palestinians? Why aren't they
letting them go out? They want to go. But When it comes to Palestinians, the world
decides for them. Like they don't have a say. And I think in this sense,
I think the simple logic of President Trump of saying Gaza is not a place you can
live in, it's-- - Yeah, the next logical point to talk about is President Trump's
comments. What will happen after Israel wins and decisively wins in Gaza?
So, I think that, realistically speaking, as I said, I believe that at least 50 -60
% of the Gazans will get out willingly. If they had a place to go. Yeah,
I think there are many places to go. You know that before the war, 300 ,000 Gazans
left Gaza. Nobody asked where did they go. They went. You have many Palestinian
communities around the world, even in places like Chile, for example. - But they had
to get out through, they wouldn't get out through Israel, probably. - No, they went
through Egypt. But now-- - But they had to pay off, as I understand. - Oh, yeah,
they always pay. In the Egyptians, they do a lot of money from these people who
get out.
But I don't think they have a serious problem finding a place to go. Everybody's
worked out about, where will they go? They manage, they go. Like, by the way,
millions of Africans and other people in the Middle East, there is thinking that
Palestinians are attached to the land. But when you look at the phenomena of
migration from the Middle East, Muslims, and from Africa, I can tell you the only
land they are attached to is Berlin or London. There they are attached. Okay,
they have no problem emigrating. You see Europe. - Yeah, full of Muslims, right.
- Yeah, so really building this theory that they're attached to the land, it doesn't
have anything to do with reality. And people have been wanting to leave Gaza for a
long time. I mean, living there is harsh under Hamas. Gaza is a very small place.
It has no viability. It was created completely by chance, by armistice lines, it
doesn't make sense. - And that wasn't their homeland, right? So you're not taking
them out of their homeland. That's where they ran in the war of '47, right? - Yeah,
many of them.
But the question is, what will happen with those who stay? Because I don't see
Israel forcing people to live. I don't think it will happen. - Why not? - I think
that--
- Why not? First of all, you can't have people living there when you're clearing it
out, right? It's only common sense. You can't live in a place where...
You can encourage people to live. First by saying, "We're not going to build this
again. We're not pouring any money into Gaza." Once the international community... You
make it difficult. You don't make it comfortable. We don't rebuild. We're not I
mean, you know, this place needs to, you know, a different future.
But if Israel is willing to do that, in the face of what will be leftist all over
the world, marching and saying-- So this will be affected by President Trump's
policy. If he will back Israel, then it can be done. Oh, he certainly will. Yeah.
But let's talk about a scenario that you have Gazans, certain amount of Gazans,
okay? Okay. Israel is saying--
One is Israeli occupation, Israel controlling completely the Gaza Strip even from the
civil side, which I would say would be needed anyway, at least temporarily,
but the only viable option is organizing Gaza along the families,
the clans of the cities, And if this will work,
this is something that we'll be able to implement also in Judea and Samaria in the
West Bank. Because if we say that the Palestinian Authority is so terrible and
corrupt and useless and dangerous, and we're not willing to have them in Gaza, why
are we willing to have them in Judea and Samaria? Does that make sense? That's a
good question. So I think that when we look at the long -term vision, Israel needs
to look not just at the day after Gaza, it needs to start thinking about bringing
the day after the Palestinian Authority, cantonizing maybe, you know,
building like Emirates, like city -states, controlled by clans, canton,
autonomies, different solutions, and also pushing the application of sovereignty in the
Jordan Valley, in the Jewish cities, in areas that are not Palestinian.
And it's very important because we have one chance with President Trump in the
coming two years to really shape the whole future for generations to come.
Correct. And there are three very big missions. is bringing down the Shi 'a axis,
meaning we need to attack Iran. We need to cut that off the snake. It's regional
peace agreements with Saudi Arabia and normalizing relations with the Muslim Sunni
-moderate world like Indonesia, for example. And it's bringing a solution to the
Israeli -Palestinian conflict that won't endanger Israel, that will ensure our security
and prosperity for generations, and we'll bring some kind of self -management in
places where Palestinians will be, but it needs to be something viable for Israel.
Well, it would be great if they all left, and then I think Trump would open it to
development, and the U .S. wouldn't have to pay a penny. You know, you start letting
developers come in, entrepreneurs come in, and they would make a Riviera. It's
obvious, it's right on the Mediterranean Sea. It's just gorgeous area, and there's no
reason it couldn't be a place that the tourists would want to go.
So my hope is-- - You know how great the beach in Tel Aviv - Right, it's just as
good, it's the same ocean. - Gaza, much better. - Better. - Much better, and I'll
tell you why, because the sand along the shores of Israel is coming from the Sahara
and from the Delta. - I see, from the south. - So the more you go north in Israel,
the less sand you have. - I see. - When you reach the shore of Haifa in Acre,
there is no sand at all. - The beach is lousy. - When I was a combat engineer of
the division of Gaza, between '97 to '99, we used to jog with the division
commander on the beach.
Amazing beach, and the sands are not only in the beach, They go all the way inside
because there's so much sand in this area, it's amazing, amazing area and it could
be such... And it's a sin all the money that the West poured into Gaza, it could
be that now. It could have been that now, right, instead of using it for weapons.
They spent hundreds of billions on hundreds. Hundreds of billions to kill Israelis.
Yes. Well, we spent a lot of time on Gaza. Let's move on to another hot spot in
Israel, the West Bank, which the Israelis refer to as Judea, the Judea and Samaria
area. So in order to discuss the current problems in the West Bank that we're going
to go into, you'll need to know a little bit of history about the region to
understand what the conflict is all about. If you go to chat GPT and ask it about
the history of Jews in Judea and Samaria. You'll find the Jews have been there
since 2000 BC, more than 4 ,000 years ago.
And if you look at the Bible, Genesis 23, Abraham purchased a burial site for his
family there. It's now called the Tomb of the Patriarchs, and is one of the holiest
sites in Judaism. Both Abraham and his wife Sarah and their children and
grandchildren are buried there. You can visit the tomb of the Patriarchs,
but because it is located in a small Jewish community in the center of the Arab
city of Hebron, you'll need an armed escort. I've been there four times.
Jews have had a continuous presence in Judea and Samaria since 2000 BC except for
various periods when most of them were exiled by enemies. First by the Babylonians,
then the Romans, then the Crusaders, and finally in 1948 after Israel's War of
Independence, Jordan expelled all of the remaining Jews. Israel recaptured that region
from Jordan in the 1967 Six -Day War, after which Jewish communities began re
-establishing settlements there. Today there are over 500 ,000 Israeli settlers in Judea
and Samaria, and there is considerable tension between them and neighboring
Palestinians. Through his term as president, Biden consistently opposed the expansion
of Israel into the West Bank. And in February of last year, his administration
reversed former President Trump's policy and he declared Israeli settlements in the
occupied Palestinian territories, Judea and Samaria, as illegitimate under international
law. What's your take on Judea and Samaria? Should the Israeli government allow
settlements there? >> So, Dr. Obama, let's talk a bit geography, okay?
The land of Israel, from the sea to the Jordan Valley, from Tel Aviv to the Jordan
Valley. >> Yeah. >> From the west to the east. >> from the river to the sea, same
distance by the way, 45 miles. - That's it. - 45 miles,
the whole land of Israel is 45 miles of width. - Wide, right. - Wide, right.
- As President Trump said quite recently to a reporter, he said, "See this desk
here? "This represents the Middle East. "See this pencil? "This represents - Exactly,
now when you look at this 45 miles, it's nine miles of shore, okay?
It's nine miles of Jordan Valley, and all the rest is the mountains of Judea and
Samara. Israel is basically Judea and Samara with a bit of margin. And this is why
all the history of the Jews is on the mountains. You cannot exist, literally,
cannot exist without being on the mountains. And they're only border that is
defensive.
There is one Jewish country, one Jewish state. I think there are 54 Islamic
countries. And it needs to be viable, not only now, but for generations to come.
We have been expelled from our lands four times. The Assyrians expelled the 10
tribes, then came the Babylonians, then came the Romans, then came the Muslims.
All of them did ethnic cleansing of Jews in their own land, spent 2 ,000 years in
the diaspora, persecuted, pogroms, inquisition, a third of our people was exterminated
in gas chamber by the Germans.
And now that we came back to our ancestral homeland-- >> Oh, and during those
pogroms, during the persecution of Jews over the last 2 ,000 years, the cry was,
"Get out of here, go to your own home." Right. They were saying... And when we go
to our own home, they say, "It's not your home." And by the way, before, when
Israel was created, the Arabs kicked out all the Jews who lived there for thousands
of years after they were expelled by the Romans. And they said, "You need to go To
Israel. This is your land. You cannot be here and now that we came back to our
land I say no, you cannot be here neither. Let's not when people say Palestine will
be free from the river to the sea They mean all the Jews need to be in the sea
right in the sea. That's what they mean dead. Okay They don't recognize the right
to be anywhere anywhere in the land and we have to remember something You know
people say I talk a lot about Palestine and international law. The name Palestine
has nothing to do with Arabs or Muslims and everything to do with Jewish history.
When we were expelled from our land by the Romans, the Romans 2 ,000 years back,
they wanted to disconnect the connection between the Jews and their land. So at that
time in the ancient world, the land was called the land of Judea.
And the Romans that controlled the whole ancient world, they said, "We are going to
change the name from Judea to Provincia, Palestina." And this name,
Palestina, was given to the land by the Romans, hundreds and hundreds of years
before Islam and Before Arabs left the area of Saudi Arabia,
and it was in the context of the Jews. And throughout the 2000 years of exile,
everybody knew that the name Palestine refers to the Jewish land.
>> Of Israel. >> You know, before Israel, there was a Palestine soccer Socrates,
or Jews. You go to Encyclopedia Britannica, you see Palestine, it's with Maghen
David, you know. It's only in the late 60s, in the 20th century,
that the Russians, together with the local Arabs, started pushing the idea of
Palestinians because since until then Palestinians were you know it was referred to
the Jewish state you know when when the British were given a mandate we talk about
the British mandate what was this mandate what mandate did they get they got from
the UN a mandate to build a national home from the Jewish for the Jewish people in
their ancestral homeland. This was the mandate.
And they didn't do that. They did exactly the opposite. This is why Jews fought the
British until '48. And a mandate by the UN is a much,
much stronger thing in the international law than any other decision in the UN.
- Than any resolution. - Yeah, this is why this mandate is mentioned in the
Declaration of Independence of Israel and the declaration doesn't start, you know,
Israel was created three years after the Holocaust. The Holocaust at that time was,
you know, a third of our people, six million people were butchered. Our declaration
of independence doesn't start by saying six million Jews died in the Holocaust.
It starts by saying in the land of Israel rose the people of Israel. Here we
became a nation. Here we wrote the Bible. Here our culture was created. We were
expelled forcibly from our land. We prayed for thousands of years to go back and
now we decided to take action. We are coming back to take our homeland. This is
what Zionism is all about. It's about taking an action and going back to our
ancestral homeland And it's all of it. It's not half of it. It's not a quarter of
it You cannot be an occupier in your own ancestral homeland right absurd all our
history is on these mountains our Security our existence is on the mountains of the
dance. I'm called Judea and Samaria Judea Oh, it should give you a hint and by In
a way, even when the UN wanted to do the partition plan, and not only the British
gave all of Jordan, which was also part of Israel, in the mandate, was supposed to
be part of Israel, they created Jordan as a state, completely against the mandate
they got, and then they left us with 45 miles. And if that isn't enough,
now they said, "You We'll cut all those things for also this 45 and we'll give you
nine miles of shore Yeah, basically saying we'll put you in a concentration camp and
we'll see how long it will take until you all die Okay, this is what they were
trying to do We're getting getting back to the Judea and Samaria the conflict I
Believe the Jewish set that Jewish settlers believe and have good reason to believe
based on history and the results of the Six -Day War that all of the West Bank
belongs to Israel. Most of the settlers are farmers who just want to work the land,
but there are some groups that want to expand into adjacent land that is farmed by
Palestinians. The media and sometimes even the Israeli government refers to them as
radical Jewish groups. One such group is called the Hilltop Youth,
their young Israelis who try to establish unauthorized outposts and are reported to
be involved in violent confrontations with the Palestinians. Another group of settlers
there are called religious nationalist extremists. They promote,
quoting many articles, "an aggressive and uncompromising vision that every square meter
of the West Bank is part of Israel." Now back to General Avivi.
How do you see these groups and how do you see them and how are they viewed by
the mainstream of the Israeli population? As you mentioned, Dr. Boudra,
more than half a million people, Jews, who live in a Judean Samaria. And people
might be surprised, but when you look at who is living, who are these 500 ,000, a
third of them are ultra -Orthodox, living in cities, big cities.
Third of them are religious Zionists. And a third of them are not even religious.
People who want affordable housing or want to live on the mountains, the air is
much better. No humidity, nice view. You can afford a nice house.
And so people are looking for, you know, the next place to live. Today, the area
of Tel Aviv, all the shore is packed. You know, it's like one big Manhattan.
It's not affordable for the young generation. They need a place to live. Now today,
Judea and Samaria, following Oslo 30 years ago, Judea and Samaria was divided to
three distinct areas, areas A, B, and C.
Area A is the Palestinian cities, which are controlled security -wise and civically by
the Palestinian authority. >> By the PA. >> By the PA. >> Area B is the rural
area around the cities, but rural.
It's fully under Israeli security and civil responsibility. It's not at all a
Palestinian area. All the Israeli towns, settlements are in Area C.
None of them are in areas that are A and B. - I see, I didn't know that.
- So Israel has the right to develop as many towns, as many settlements as it in
areas that are Was designated to Israel according to Oslo and Israel wants to Israel
wants to develop So this is important to understand. Israel is not developing
anything in areas that were that are according to Oslo Palestinian areas the
Palestinians are doing so Against the Oslo agreement that doing illegal grabbing of
land in areas. - I see. - Israel is not doing illegal grabbing of land in areas A
and B. They are doing massive illegal takeover of land in areas that belong to
Israel, according to Oslo.
And Israel today is starting to deal with this better.
But these areas are disputed areas and it's time to take action and take decision.
You know, at the end of '67, Judan Samara are not the only areas that Israel
liberated in '67. Israel also liberated eastern part of Jerusalem and also the Golan
Heights. But Israel, following that, applied its slow over the Golan Heights and over
East Jerusalem. It united Jerusalem and it applied the law in the Golan Heights,
and following that, many years later, President Trump recognized both Jerusalem and
the United States, and the Golan Heights. Now we need to do the next step,
and the next step is taking Area C and applying the Israeli law in these areas,
that Robin, when he did Oslo, understood that these areas need to be under Israeli
sovereignty Without that, Israel has no future. Why not A &B too? Why isn't it A &B
too? Because if you apply your sovereignty on area A &B, according to international
law, you will need to give the Palestinians, Israeli, citizenship. Now,
what you want to do, you want to find a solution that on one hand creates the
viability of Israel and the states and secures it.
And this 60 % area C enables us to really secure Israel,
have a future, have an area where we can settle the people. The young generation
will have where to live. Israel will be secure. And by the way, the more Israel
settles this area, the better the economy will be also for the Palestinians,
because when they come and work in an industrial zone in Judea and Samaria,
they earn three times more than any job they have because they don't have economical
viability. So if we would have applied now the sovereignty and bring a thousand
industries to this area, this would bring huge prosperity for everybody, both for
Palestinians
we need to take action. And I think that the Israeli government is allowing people
to move to area C or not. And I mean, look, you don't get you don't reach half a
million people by not allowing people to go. Israel, all the governments of Israel,
one way or another, supported, settling, because everybody understands that without
that, we're not viable. You cannot be on a nine -mile shore and call it a country.
It's not a country. We're certainly not looking at the jungle of the Middle East
and if you want to exist.
But the challenge was all the time to find the right leader that understands
Israel's needs and agrees to Israel applying it slow over these areas,
which don't include the Palestinian areas. And this is a challenge we're meeting in
the coming two years. So when I mentioned the conflict, is there a conflict? Is the
conflict because the Jews, the radical so -called, are moving out of C into A and
B? Or is it because the Palestinians in A and B are attacking Jews who are living
in C? Or is it both? So It's a lot of Palestinian attacks.
I mean, most of the terror in huge scale is emanating from the Palestinians. And
Jews are mostly on the defense.
But you have a phenomenon, a very small group, out of the half a million, that are
like any other Israeli citizen, they serve in the army, they're doctors, you know.
The best of the best Israel has, really many of them by the way fell in the
battles you know now in the war in Gaza and the motivation to serve in the army
is very high in these areas and they must have a pioneer spirit or they wouldn't
be living in sea definitely definitely unfortunately you have a small group that
instead of letting the police the army do their job and deal with you know all
these terrorists on the Palestinian side. Occasionally they take things into their
hands
and you know retaliate usually because of a Palestinian attack, which they shouldn't
do. Okay, we have an army for that, we have the police for that, you don't take
the law in your hands.
And Shin Bet and the police and the Army are dealing with this small group,
but we have to understand that because there is a whole,
really attempt to delegitimize the whole society that lives there,
in Area C, they refer to it as settlers' violence,
Like, you know, if you live in Judea and Samaria, you must be somebody who is
violent. So, you know, we checked, we in IDSF, we did the research,
we checked the level of violence
in Judea and Samaria, looking at this half a million people, compared to Tel Aviv.
In Tel Aviv, the level of violence was three times more. - And you adjusted for
population, of course. - Yeah, adjusting it to population. And you don't go around
saying Tel Aviv violence. - I see, I see, I see. - So this attempt to dehumanize
even, you know, Israeli citizens, just because they live in an area where Israel
thinks it's important to live, okay? - But it's a tough area. - This is terrible.
- Yeah. - And...
it a part of Israel. Now, we know that this needs to be a part of Israel. You're
talking about C or A, B, and C? I'm talking about C, about 60 % of Jordan Valley.
And already back in the previous... You mean the Israeli government doesn't count
that as Israel? It's still called disputed territories? So, the Israeli government
understands that this needs to be part of Israel, but they need the president to
support Applying the law and not being in a situation where you do that and then
he doesn't defend you in the Security Council. I see now already in the previous
administration of Trump He came to Israel and said look I Understand that you need
a Jordan Valley. This is existential. I understand That you need the Jewish towns on
the mountains. This is the Bible belt. This is your history. your history. This is
your heritage. No problem. Apply the law. Do that. And Israel wasn't ready.
It wasn't ready. The public opinion wasn't ready. President Trump surprised Israelis
because for so long they said there will never be a president that will support it.
And suddenly there was. And we didn't act upon it. And I think this time we cannot
miss the opportunity. We need a resolution. We need a solution. And I think that
following the 7th of October, many, many Israelis who maybe saw that we don't need
this. Why should we be on the mountain?
Now they understand. I mean, think about it. When the Gazans attacked us,
they went, like, I would say, 14, 15 miles into Israel.
They attacked all the way
they say we'll be the next Gaza if we don't apply sovereignty to John Valley and
on the mountains in area C We'll be the next Gaza and but didn't The deal that
was closed with Robin the Oslo Accords didn't it make area C part of Israel
Oslo Accord was an intermediary Agreement they said we'll start with five years of
agreement and then we'll talk about the details and what will happen in the long
term. They never reached this point. I see. Okay. Strange. So now we need to act
and do something about it and I think it needs to happen in the coming two years.
This is why we in IDSF were pushing the government to put a clear vision because
it will take maybe a month, maybe two months, President Trump will come to Netanyahu
and we'll ask him a simple question. What do you guys want? Right.
Tell me what you want. Right. And we have to answer it very clearly and we have
to answer what we want and we're looking at Israel and we have to answer what kind
of solution following that we think that is applicable with the Palestinians.
Mm -hmm. City -states, emirates, cantonized. Mm -hmm.
states and so on. So Israel needs to put a clear vision and we are building a
viable solution. I think it's up to IDSF and groups like yours to pressure the
government to move in that direction. Okay, moving away from Palestinian issues, look,
we all know that all of the serious problems that Israel currently faces from Hamas,
Hezbollah or the Houthis are because of Iran. As you said, the head of the snake,
it's the snake that funds all of those terrorist organizations with the single
objective of destroying Israel. Now that Israel has an American president who
understands the dangers that Iran poses, not only to Israel,
but to the entire world, it's time to cut the head of the snake off.
When do you think Israel will make a preemptive strike on Iran and destroy all of
Iran's nuclear capabilities? So as we said before, Dr. Bob Israel started by
concentrating on Gaza, then it shifted the center of gravity to the north, to
Lebanon and Syria. And then when we started in Syria,
in Lebanon, sorry, the Prime Minister said we are starting a ceasefire.
Now we are shifting the center of gravity to Iran. And I can tell you-- >>> And
with Syria demilitarized basically, Israel's planes,
the Israeli Air Force has a clear, shorter path to Iran. >>> Definitely.
And I can tell you that the whole center of gravity of the Israeli industries, of
the air force, of the intelligence has moved towards preparing for a decisive attack
on Iranian nuclear sites, military sites, and so on.
But we understand that because Iran is far away, the best scenario would be a
coalition, meaning the U .S. and Israel attacking together. And I think that one of
the main messages we send to the U .S. is we need to do this together.
It's very important, not just for the Middle East and for Israel, but for global
deterrence, because the U .S. needs to stand strong somewhere. They need to show that
they are willing to use military power. Now, it wouldn't be smart to challenge
directly the Chinese, the Pacific, or the Russians.
The Iranians are the weak link. Let's go after them. Let's attack them decisively.
Now, a pinpoint attack, an air attack, two, three days on Iran,
this is not the beginning of a war. This is the end of the war. Right. Right. And
that's how it has to be positioned because President Trump has made it a prompt,
basically a promise during his campaign for reelection that I don't get us into
wars. I get us out of wars. So this is the way to get out of the war. Attack.
Attack Iran. Cut the head of the snake. And once you cut it, the whole sheer axis
will collapse and this will create the terms for creating a western Israeli moderate
Sunni alliance normalizing relations with Saudi Arabia and many other countries.
And probably the the mullahs will fall from Iran and you'll have a different kind
of government there. From what I understand about 70 % of the population of Iran
hates the Shia autocracy that they have there.
Definitely. But there is a big question whether the strategy of Trump will be
focusing on bringing down the regime or crippling their military and the nuclear
capability. I think if we cripple their your capabilities, the regime will fall.
- I hope so. I really do. But we have to counter two big threats.
One is bringing down the Shia axis. And the other thing is making sure that when
Iran falls, you don't see the Sunni radicals, ISIS, Al Qaeda, Jabhat Nuzra,
all these guys we see now in Afghanistan, Syria under Turkish umbrella and Qatari
umbrella, getting stronger again. In order to keep the Middle East under control,
you need a Western Israeli moderate Sunni alliance. And this will also have a huge
economical impact. This will open new routes of trade, connecting India's trade to
UAE. And from UAE on the ground to Israel, Israel is going to become Singapore.
The whole world trade will go through Israel. Oil will go through Israel directly
from UAE and Saudi Arabia to Elat, not needing to go through Hormuz trains or
Babelmandab, areas that are close to Iran and Yemen. And we see the Houthis the way
they undermine international trade
And we can bypass all of that, and do it through Israel. This will change
completely, the Middle East, and also will make Israel maybe one of the most
important, crucial trade routes in the world. Now if America is unwilling to join
forces with us with actual weaponry flown by Americans,
the large planes that have to hold the bunker busters, is it possible if they just
provide assistance through the satellites and security,
if they provided that and provided weapons to Israel, could Israel do it alone? Yes,
Israel can do it alone and Israel is getting now a lot of the munitions we need
to carry out such an attack and Still, I think that it will be a mistake on the
part of the US. I See a point because if you well, if us plays a part in it
that sends a signal to China and to US need to build again global deterrence and
and Just talking about sanctions, it's not enough. No, no, I-- Not enough.
The East has adjusted to sanctions. They get around them. They get around them. They
build bricks. They're already an economical system that are trending among themselves.
And this will send a message of weakness that might bring China to a place where
they will invade Taiwan, or the Russians' further aggression in Europe and And in
Africa, the U .S. needs to stand strong, somewhere. And the Iranians are weak.
We have to reverse the debacle that was the withdrawal from Afghanistan. Horrible.
Yeah, horrible. And talking about, you know, talking about even the leadership of
Hamas that is outside of Gaza, okay, they are in Qatar, they are in Egypt,
they are in Turkey,
They need to be arrested. I mean, the U .S. needs to insist that they send these
terrorists to the U .S. They killed 50 American citizens. They kidnapped Americans.
There are still Americans kidnapped. Why are they arrested? There is much more
pressure that can be put on these countries. When we talk about Iran, this is the
one place the U .S. needs to stand firmly and attack with Israel.
Israel can do it alone, but what kind of message is it talking about global
leadership?
You know, the day before the attack on Nassarallah, before we attacked Nassarallah
and killed him in his bunker, - I met with a high official of the US.
- Was that in Lebanon? - In Lebanon. - Yeah. - I met with a high official and I was
waiting for the meeting, you know, in the lobby. And as I'm waiting, I see the
symbol of the US, this mighty eagle holding arrows, you know, things very,
very serious bird. And then I go to the meeting. And the whole meeting,
We need to de -escalate. We need a ceasefire. That's what he's telling you. Yeah, we
need a ceasefire. We need to de -escalate. At a certain point, I looked at him and
I said, "You know, I was looking at this mighty eagle outside your office. When did
you become doves? You cannot be a world power behaving like a dove.
Somebody told me, "Amyri, you should have told him Turkey." You - Ah, right.
- So how did he respond to this? You know, he was a Biden party, right? - So it
was interesting because, yeah, because initially, you know, he laughed, and we had a
nice polite conversation. At the end of the conversation, he got serious.
He looks at me and he says, I may listen well. If you guys continue to attack,
there will be a daylight between Israel in the U .S. Now, in you, I meet regularly
with the Prime Minister and the Minister of Defense. >> In you, you're going to
report that back. >> Yeah, he expected me to report this. >> Yeah. >> You know, I
went out of the room. By the time I got to the car, I got really, really angry.
>> Yes, right. >> I phoned the assistant of the Prime Minister and I told him,
"Listen. Listen well. If you don't kick the shit out of Hezbollah, We, in IDSF,
were going to launch a campaign against you, you know, and I didn't say anything
about the meeting and what happened. I mean, don't worry, things are under control,
you'll see. And the next day, 80 bombs into the bunker of Nassarallah.
When I saw that, I tried to imagine the face, you know, of this guy, you were
talking about. But he was a Biden appointee and that was that's Obama talking and I
think that if President Trump really wants to change completely the positioning of
the U .S. globally, you cannot do that without showing power. Talking is certainly
not in the Middle East. Well, a different topic and a very recent and very
troubling issue for Israel is that Egypt has for the past few months been
militarizing the Sinai in clear violation of the peace treaty that it signed with
Israel back in 1979. That treaty established strict limitations on military deployments
in the Sinai to maintain it as a demilitarized buffer zone between the two nations,
but satellite imagery has recently revealed the presence of approximately 100 Abrams
tanks stationed in El -Arish, a location where heavy armor is prohibited by the peace
agreement. These tanks are part of Egypt's elite units, and it raises concerns about
their intent for positioning them there.
Is Egypt preparing for war with Israel? Or is it just posturing to express its
dissatisfaction with Trump's plan to move all of the Gazans to Egypt and Jordan?
Or is it an attempt to show the Arab world how brave and strong Egypt's military
is and that It can't be pushed around by the United States. What is it?
Egypt has been building for years a very, very strong army,
post -Navy, air force, ground forces, and all the drills are directed to Israel.
Israel hasn't done a drill against Egypt for decades, But the Egyptians are training
all the time looking at Israel as an enemy Now we have to remember that Egypt 110
million people a third of them are Muslim brotherhood a third a third these are
Hamas like Hamas and You know at a certain point where the US was pushing
democratic elections in Egypt They won the elections They won the elections it took
control of Egypt imagine such a big army And at a certain moment it becomes Hamas
army. Hmm. It can happen any moment so When Israel is looking now at the way
Israel should build the IDF looking in the long term You know for many many years
the IDF has been saying we don't have any regular armies to fight anymore,
maybe terror armies, but when this war will be over in the coming year,
Israel is going to win decisively on all fronts against these terror armies,
against Hamas, we're going to eradicate them. We're going to destroy this terror
infrastructure in the Danza Mariah. Hezbollah has been hit dramatically and we are
enforcing a duality in Lebanon, making sure that they are not going to rebuild
themselves. There is going to be an attack on Iran, we are going to bring down the
Shia axis. So looking at the IDF in the long term,
what do we need to prepare for? And the answer is we need to prefer to deal with
two big armies. One is Egypt One is Egypt and the other one is Turkey Because the
Turks now are pretty much Controlling Syria any given moment they can go into Syria
and which Israeli borders that might happen so the whole build up of Power of the
IDF looking in the next 20 years needs to really take seriously these two Sunni
Muslim Brotherhood potentially armies, because Arduan is Muslim Brotherhood,
and we have to be ready. Now the amount of forces now in the Sanai Peninsula,
it's not an amount of force that really endangers Israel. Seriously, Israel can deal
with this,
But they need to retreat, they need to take out these forces out of the Sanai
Peninsula. We need to work with the U .S. to enforce this. But there is a big
question about Egypt. In the U .S., it's pretty much mistreated Egypt for a long
time. Since Obama, Egyptians are really fed up fed up with that because he was
favoring the Shia over the Sunnis. This is for one thing. The other thing that was
also favoring, you know, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and the Egyptians used to used to be
the leaders of the Arab world. I remember that they have lost completely, you know,
this position. It's frustrates them. They want to go back to be, you know,
a dominant country, when the Muslim brother took over Egypt,
or won the elections, these democratic elections, when Assisi lead a military coup
and took control, the response of the U .S. was, instead of saying, "Wow, luckily,
you know, we have Assisi back," and not the Muslim brotherhood, they attacked Assisi
and said, "You lead a military coup against the Muslim brotherhood, democracy.
>>> That was Obama who said that. >>> Yeah. >>> He supports the Muslim brotherhood.
>>> They, you know, humiliated Assisi. >>> I see. >>> And Assisi started,
especially because of the weakness of the U .S. in the US administration, Assisi
started moving more and more towards the east. >>> Towards? >>> The east. >>> The
the east I say purchasing more and more weapons from the Russians I say getting
closer to China and this is that the expense of the relations with the US so the
US needs to build a coherent strategy looking at Egypt we cannot have Egypt moving
towards China and Russia we need Egypt on the Western side and it's a new challenge
now think about it when we are talking about this amazing you know prospects of
this is a very important source of income for the Egyptians,
shifting it to Israel.
So if you do that, what is the prospect for Egypt? What do you have to offer
them? We need to come up with a plan that looks at Egypt because Egypt is a
ticking bomb. Any moment there can be civil war. There are 30 million people that
are starving. Not only that, the only source of water they have is denial. And now,
there is a huge dam that is being built in Ethiopia that will create a huge
shortage of water for Egypt. People won't have water. These things need to be
addressed. Now, I talk about it also with the Europeans, because 110 million people,
imagine there is a kind of collapse, and 10 million people go on board and move.
Yeah. They're going to go. Right. So this goes through Italy to Germany. Yeah.
One thing that might happen is massive, massive migration from Egypt. Wow. The other
thing that might happen is that Egypt will see that there is internal turmoil and
they will say okay we need an external enemy, they will go and fight Israel.
So this issue needs to be dealt with and there is no comprehensive strategy what to
do with a country that is a quarter of the Middle East. The whole Middle East is
400 million people, a quarter of them live in Egypt. I had no idea of that.
Scary times.
General, I want to thank you for spending time with me today and so much more for
starting IDSF and for growing it to become a powerful voice for conservatives in
Israel to speak to their government. Thank you very much.
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