The 12-Day War: Israel’s Secret Plan to Destroy Iran’s Nuclear Threat | Ep 67 Jacob Nagel

In this riveting episode of Life Lessons with Dr. Bob, Israeli national security expert Jacob Nagel returns to share an unprecedented insider account of Israel’s preemptive war against Iran. From the massive B-2 bomber strikes and the elimination of Iran’s nuclear scientists to the destruction of missile stockpiles, Nagel explains how the operation was planned, why it succeeded so decisively, and what comes next for the Middle East.

He details how Israel’s doctrine shifted from deterrence to preemption, why the timing of the strike was critical, and how regional players—from Hezbollah to Saudi Arabia—are recalibrating in the aftermath. Finally, Nagel tackles the question: Is regime change the only permanent solution to the Iranian nuclear threat?

Don’t miss this extraordinary firsthand perspective on one of the most consequential military campaigns in modern history.

#israeliranwar #israeldefenseforces #irannuclearprogram #middleeastconflict #iranisraelwar #iranvsisrael #israelnews

Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00:00):

The B two bombing 12 mop bombs on for com facility and two other bombs on the facility that maybe this enriched Rainium was. There were a great, great, great success.

Speaker 2 (00:00:22):

Mainstream media gives you the impression that there is nothing good about America. In direct contrast to that, my podcasts will prove by examples that America has always been and still is the land of opportunity for everyone. Hello and welcome to another episode in the series, life Lessons with Dr. Bob. My guest today is Jacob Nagel, a man who is so unique and knowledgeable about events in Israel that we've invited him back for this his third time. We previously interviewed Jacob in both March and April of this year, months before the very recent 12 day war with Iran. You can watch those interviews in episodes number 65 and 66. Today we'll be seeking his insights on that war and what the defeat of Iran means for the future of Israel and the Middle East. For those of you who haven't seen either of the prior episodes with Jacob, I'm going to now briefly review his background, which will build credibility for what he'll be speaking about today.

(00:01:41):

Jacob's military career in the Israel Defense forces. The IDF began in 1979 when he joined the Elite 8,200 unit that is responsible for cyber warfare in the following 19 years. He rose to the rank of Brigadier General and retired from the IDF in 1996. Directly after retirement, Jacob transitioned into leadership roles in national security, including head of military r and d with the Ministry of Defense head of Israel's National Security Council from 2016 to 2017, and most recently, just last year, he was appointed by Prime Minister Netanyahu to chair a committee to evaluate Israel's defense strategy and its budgetary needs for the coming decade. The 130 page report appropriately named the Nagel committee report was presented to the Prime Minister in January this year. One very important recommendation of the Nagel report is that Israel must change its military strategy from one of containment of its enemies to preemption to take military action against its enemies before they can strike. And as we now know, the Netanyahu government accepted that recommendation as shown by Israel's preemptive strike on Iran earlier this month. In summary, throughout his career, Jacob Nagel has been and still is instrumental in shaping Israel's defense strategies and technological advancements, both of which have significantly enhanced the security of the state of Israel for the past 40 years. Jacob, welcome once again to the show.

Speaker 1 (00:03:47):

Thank you very much, and thank you for this introduction. I'm really humbled, and again, it's never one man show. It always was and will be a team effort in the Minister of Defense in the National Security Advisor, and of course in my IDF services before some of the things that we worked on for the last 15, even 20 years, really matured in the last few years and especially in the last few months in the world that Israel is doing now.

Speaker 2 (00:04:30):

Okay, let's start with the change in Israel's military strategy. As I understand it, for many years, Israel's military strategy was to have a very strong military that would deter its enemies from attacking because the enemies would know that Israel's response would be very painful. What caused you to recommend in your report that Israel dramatically changed that strategy to one of preemption?

Speaker 1 (00:05:04):

When you read this file and unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, that most of the people are reading the unclassified one, the biggest change between the unclassified and declassified one is about Iran and about the systems that Israel should have in order to defeat Iran from becoming nuclear power or nuclear threat to Israel and to the United States and the world. So I'm really glad that some of the change was adopted. Of course, some of our recommendations are for many years in advance, and I'm telling you now even so, I am sending this message to the people that will watch this show mostly in Israel, our voices now Israel saying, okay, the recommendation of the Nagel committee are adopted. We did great work against Iran. Iran is not an enemy and not a threat anymore, and especially around us. The Hezbollah the biggest, it's one of the ends of the cat. If Iran is the head of the cat, someone talks about the four or five ends.

Speaker 2 (00:06:28):

Usually they refer to an octopus in the arms of the octopus.

Speaker 1 (00:06:32):

Some people octopus, some people cat.

Speaker 2 (00:06:34):

Well, cats only have two hands. That doesn't make sense. Octopus has many

Speaker 1 (00:06:40):

Because I know you love cats. Two cats and in Israel, prime minister Antonio used the cat much before we moved to the octopus and tentacles. He used the cat for many years and he always said it's enough to cut the end of the cat, and he mostly talked about Hezbollah in the nose that every time when he did something, we just respondent to the north and we didn't do anything with Iran. This one ends in the last few weeks, and it was, of course, the Israeli homeland and everyone in Israel suffered a very terrified two weeks, a lot of the damage to property, even 29 people dead. Believe me, it's everyone that died is a big loss, but it's much, much, much, much lower than the anticipations for what will happen. Again, some of the anticipation was because before we changed our strategy also in the north, we were sure that when there will be a war with Iran, the Hezbollah will also join it and we'll use it. Huge 200 target missiles that fortunately enough in the war in Lebanon in the last few months before we finished and came to the ceasefire, we eliminated most of their fire power in Lebanon, of course, on the border with Israel. Now we have a cease fire and we see it's working. I'm sure we'll come later on. What will be the next step of Iran?

Speaker 2 (00:08:35):

Of course, I still want to understand what caused you well. Okay. You're saying the threat from Iran caused you to change Europe, your view, and to recommend that we act preemptively, but I think the attack by Hamas on October 7th, 2023 also was extremely important in teaching Israel that just being strong isn't enough. Trying to deter the enemy isn't enough. We have a very strong military, yet we were attacked by Hamas, so I think that also played a role in Israel adopting this preemptive strategy. Is that correct?

Speaker 1 (00:09:23):

You are totally right. It was the Hamas and then it was Israeli understanding that if we change our doctrine, the original plan can happen because the original plan of ham and his boxes in our area was to start with using the Hezbollah. Very, very, very effective and strong arm of what we call the Radwan forces that planned to invade Israel in the north and take some of our villages, people kill butcher rape. Believe me, if it would happen in the north and not in the South, the outcome would be 10 times more devastating.

(00:10:11):

So we understood this, we cannot do, so we did it in the north, but what really, really happened in the last few months that we understood that Iran decided to change its doctrine or work, and we saw many, many, many signs that they are going to build or they're going to be more ready in the nuclear part of their role. We know that ham plan, and we talked about it a lot in our previous podcast, his program or his plan was to kill Israel using conventional missiles, using conventional power with an umbrella of a nuclear bomb. We understood that Iran with a nuclear bomb will be a total big threat to Israel, but also to the world because they are also starting to build a huge army or huge

Speaker 2 (00:11:25):

Inventory

Speaker 1 (00:11:28):

Of the ballistic missiles. They talked about 10,000 ballistic missiles. Some of them are intercontinental ballistic missiles, meaning missiles that can reach Europe and the US and if there will be a nuke, an atomic bomb on the head of one of those missiles. It's very, very, very, very, very threatful to the world. So Israel decided exactly as you just mentioned, it started in Hamas, but it continued in the war against Hezbollah as that fault without us making part of it. But for sure his fault is part of the changes that happened in our area in Hamas and in Gaza and in Lebanon. So we decided now it's time to go to the head of the cat or the octopus. You can choose the animal that you want, and Israel really planned a lot of deception was there because if you do a preemptive strike, you have to make sure that the other side is not expecting you to do it. In this day thing that I couldn't talk in our last episodes, for example, the plan to kill the scientists,

Speaker 2 (00:12:43):

So Israel was prepared to act preemptively. Why did they choose to do it when they did, which was exactly one day after the 60 day timeframe that Trump wrote in his letter to Khomeini. So why did they choose to do it that day?

Speaker 1 (00:13:03):

I don't know. But it was a very, very nice and important anecdote, but it was on the 61 day of Trump, and when it helped us to take Trump to be part of our plan, it was great. I'm not sure that this day being the 61 day of the deadline played a big role, but for sure it played a very important role. The most important thing is that if you read our recommendations and our Israel national security strategy, everyone was asking us in, I remember 2012, 13, when there was the negotiations on the herbal JCP way when you are going to attack Iran, because there were talks there. Remember that in those days, I don't want to say most because it was almost all the defense establishment was against Prime Minister Rean and is Minister of Defense, Barak those days. I don't like Barak reviews today, but in those days he was part of the cabinet and he was part of the people that recommended and supported the strike on Iranian.

(00:14:22):

Now, now coming back to 2025, because when everyone was asking then us, when you are going to attack, we said, we are going to attack when we'll come to the decision that tomorrow it'll be too late. So when we attacked in the last months, believe me, we came to the decisions that we cannot wait anymore. Today we have to attack because tomorrow it can be too late because tomorrow you run and it's facilities, the IRGC, those people that are around the commander, the military and every facility in Iran that were, all of them, were coordinated toward going forward to build a nuclear bomb, to develop the technological thing, technological capabilities.

Speaker 2 (00:15:27):

I think the timing was perfect. They couldn't do it during the time when the Trump administration was in active negotiations with Iran, couldn't do it then because that would really piss off President Trump and Whitcoff or whoever and with bad results. So I think they had to wait till that series of negotiations were over, but before they restarted them because they would've restarted them.

Speaker 1 (00:15:54):

Exactly

Speaker 2 (00:15:54):

Right. So it was the perfect timing. Now wait.

Speaker 1 (00:15:58):

You are totally right. This part, you are totally right. Israel did not want to attack Iran while there are negotiations, and it was a great timing that there are no negotiations. There are negotiations, there was negotiations about the next part of negotiations, but they were not inside the negotiation.

Speaker 2 (00:16:18):

Perfect. Now, the attack was incredibly successful, more than 200, as I understand it, more than 200 Israeli jets were involved flying hundreds of EAs. They bombed a hundred targets in 12 days, and not one jet was downed, no enemy fire, a very complex operation that required multiple refuelings of each jet to reach Iran, which is far away, and then to return, they had to be refueled again just to return. Were you surprised at the degree of Israel success?

Speaker 1 (00:16:59):

I was. So it'll be a success, success before, but I remember some talking about what can be the results of this attack in casualties, as you said, in jets, in maybe pilots going down and being captured and other things. It was amazing, and I think this attack would be learned in war schools for the next 100 years. So much of, as you just explained, 1500 kilometers from Israel, the amazing, very, very, very accurate intelligence that we had. It's not something that happened in few days. It's something that happened in a lot of years, 10 to 20 years, and of course was supposed to be accurate. The moment that you attack coordinating all those sorts, all those I'll call things that you used, facilities and weapons and others that we use, not all of them are out for the public, and it's very good that they're not out.

(00:18:16):

But to organize, to coordinate, to do all of this together successfully in 1 31 big 30, and to eliminate more than people say 1110, it's around 15, the most important ranked scientists that worked on the liberal program to kill almost all the Air Force commanding the people together with this guy Ade that we mentioned in the last episode, the one that was standing and telling to his people in October 24, and then in March 24, in October, go and kill the state of Israel. He was the head of the air force of the IRDC, him and his all commending people together with him, the commanding people of the army, the chief of staff, the chief of intelligence, the chief of almost every chief of is out now. No,

Speaker 2 (00:19:26):

Wait, wait, wait. So I think everybody, two key elements of the successful bombing were the actions that Israel took prior to the bombing campaign. First of all, it destroyed Iran's radar and anti-aircraft systems and also, as you said, eliminated many of Iran's military leaders and nuclear scientists. So done before, right after that, they immediately started the bottom.

Speaker 1 (00:19:58):

It was part of the attack. The attack was comprised on going to Iran based on the great intelligence that we had, and you are totally right. It's of course based on our attack, our attacks on Iran. After the October attack, they took down all Iran, strategic air defense. This we talked before. We took down all Iran, strategic air defense, most of Iran facilities to produce new missiles and new EVs, not enough. We completed this part in this world. So I don't want to differentiate what was before. Of course, what was a few months before is making sure that can do this war or this sort without the Iranian air defense giving us a lot of casualties.

Speaker 2 (00:20:56):

Fantastic.

Speaker 1 (00:20:58):

And it was not enough. We had a lot of small air defense batteries to take care of. There were many of them, tens of them around Iran, depending on all the government facilities and others. It took us about 36 hours, day and a half to clear everything after the first, believe me, the first attack was under a lot of adults, a lot of sweats that we took care of. But to make sure that we have a total air superiority above Tehran, just imagine it. Hundreds of Israeli plants are loitering about hours above Tehran property, and not only Tehran Isan and even Shiraz, 500 kilometers even deeper. And it's not only a man planes with a lot of unmanned plans that were the hunters, the launches of those missiles that were launched to Israel, many of the launching of missiles from Iran to Israel were previously attacked before they were able to launch them.

(00:22:26):

Of course, already they launched, but you saw that it came from 100 in the first day to about 20 and then to about 2, 3, 4 in the last few days. It's not because they didn't want it is because they didn't have the power, because we destroyed almost everything they had. We destroyed many of the facilities to build new missile. But this is on the missiles part, on the nuclear part, we attacked almost all the facilities. We left for the one for future. Hopefully we didn't know them, hopefully joining of the US and Trump, because this was a facility that it was much better attacked by the

Speaker 2 (00:23:17):

B twos

Speaker 1 (00:23:17):

Power of the United States using the B twos, the great bombers that Israel doesn't have. And of course the M, we call it the mother of all bombs, but it's even another name in English. It was a great, great success, and believe me, don't hear all this intelligence assessment,

Speaker 2 (00:23:42):

All of this, the wiping out of their anti-aircraft and then the assassination of their key military leaders required a huge amount of intelligence to know where they would be or to get them into a bunker, to trick them to go into a bunker and then bomb the bunker. So what role did Mossad play in this entire campaign?

Speaker 1 (00:24:10):

And again, I don't want to go into the fight between Mossad and the IDF. The Mossad have its own role to bring a lot of intelligence, but the program that, again, before I couldn't even talk about it in your episodes. Remember I told you all the time we made that we need to take care on all parts of the nuclear program, the feal material, the weaponization and the missiles, and in the weaponization, one of the parts is the people that are doing it. And we didn't go into too details because I couldn't bridge the security level. Now we are out with this program that the Israeli name was Narnia.

Speaker 2 (00:24:56):

Narnia.

Speaker 1 (00:24:56):

It went out. So I can talk about it. It was, believe me, it is more than 10 years of working, gathering intelligence, understanding how you can do it or not. It went out. Even the head of this group was interviewed from Ms. Beck without of course seeing him and explaining how many people worked on this program. You cannot do it without a lot of intelligence. Some of the intelligence came from Mossad.

Speaker 2 (00:25:33):

What we are talking about, the Narnia operation was the operation to assassinate the key scientists involved in the weaponization of this fizzle material. It's one thing to get all this material very difficult centrifuges years of work to spin it down to get it to bomb grade. But then the next very, very complex technical task is to put this fizzle material into make a bomb out of it. And it's not so simple, very complex physics and everything. So Israel's Mossad, I think Mossad had been following these scientists throughout their career, perhaps. I mean, Jacob will tell us. So we knew exactly who the top scientists were, who would weaponize this material. We knew where they lived. And as I understand it, Jacob, you tell me if I'm right or wrong, each one was killed in their own home at the same time while they were sleeping. That's what I had heard. You tell me if that's pretty much what happened, they had to be killed at the same time. Otherwise they would hear about it and go into hiding. So that's what I heard. Is that correct? Did Mossad actually assassinate them in their home

Speaker 1 (00:26:55):

Again? Dr. Bob, you put down all the key points with one, something that I have to change and make it clear. It is, and it was a joint cooperated work between the Mossad and the ID.

Speaker 2 (00:27:11):

Okay.

Speaker 1 (00:27:12):

Long time ago, according to then, it was according to Foreign Press, the Mossad assassinate, he was the head of the organization group, and he was killed few years ago, and then his successor was killed in the last attack. Now, the attack itself, I don't want to go into who bought more intelligence, the IDF, the 8,200, the analysis group and other people in the Mossad, believe me, it was a teamwork between the IDF and the mosad. Now, there are many stories about how we killed those scientists, and you pointed it very, very accurately that we needed to do it simultaneously together with the other attacks because we understood that the moment the rumor will go out that Israel is now attacking and killing leading scientists and leading military commanders, they will go away and run the attack itself. We use many, many, many kind of weapons and capabilities that some of them, I cannot go into it, but I don't like when someone say, it's only massage. I not like when someone say, it's only idea. I know some of it. Understood. It's a cooperation. It's an orchestrated theater main

Speaker 2 (00:28:42):

Fair

Speaker 1 (00:28:43):

Operated together by the IDF and the Mossad. I don't want to go into what part is every one of them,

Speaker 2 (00:28:51):

Right? Well, we like to think about Mossad because we've seen a lot of movies about spies, but as I understand

Speaker 1 (00:28:58):

It, but it's not always correct.

Speaker 2 (00:28:59):

Yeah. But as I understand it, we also have an organization in the Air Force called Shal, which has operators on the ground in these kinds of things. Okay, so next, on June 23rd, just a few days ago, president Trump unilaterally and seemingly without consultation with either Israel or Iran announced a ceasefire. So we were Israel and the us, we were clearly winning the war. Why didn't Trump let Israel finish the job?

Speaker 1 (00:29:40):

And again, you mentioned what happened. I have to change one thing. I don't think that President Trump could announce this announcement without cooperating it and getting the yes from Israel and from Iran. Now, don't ask me if he got the answer yes by pushing a very, very important vein in the head of these two liters and making sure that if they're not saying yes, this vein is not going to produce more blood to their brain. And again, it's all just to give the picture. I'm sure that maybe Israel wanted to move to 1 3, 4 days more, but the cease file is in a very good point in our attack, the IDF and the Mosad, but mostly the IDF completed exactly what the war plan was, and believe me, much, much more. You just said before with no casualties, no plane down, no pilot down. We just lost four U. And believe me, those four UAVs, only two of them were taken down by the Iranian fire, four UAVs in, as you said, hundreds, maybe thousands of Saudis, 1500 kilometers from Israel.

Speaker 2 (00:31:10):

Amazing.

Speaker 1 (00:31:11):

So it's amazing. And again, the decision of Trump doing a ceasefire in this point, I think it was a good point for Israel. I'm not sure it was good point for Iran, but they gladly joined because they were begging for ceasefire for almost 10 days. In this point of time, I don't want to argue if it was better one day later, two days later, one day earlier, it doesn't matter. We are now going to cease file. But the most important thing is that yes, president Trump announced a cease file on both sides and both sides agreed. The bigger question is, and he did it without going into details like Trump likes, the question is what will be next?

Speaker 2 (00:32:04):

Right?

Speaker 1 (00:32:04):

What, sorry,

Speaker 2 (00:32:05):

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I'll get into that. There is currently a lot of discussion in America about the effectiveness of America's B two bombing of Iran's nuclear facilities. So a lot of talking heads are saying, well, it wasn't effective. They didn't destroy anything, and the fizzle material has been moved out. So what's your understanding? Did we eliminate Iran's ability to develop weapons or not

Speaker 1 (00:32:44):

To say eliminated or I had a new English word I didn't know before obliterated. I don't like to use those kind of force

(00:33:00):

Because we hurt very, very, very much both the nuclear program and the missile program to eliminate it. Again, you have to kill so many people and so many facilities. But I don't like some of the rumors or some of the innocent people inside the US and some of it also inside Israel saying, oh no, it was nothing three, four months and everything will going in no way. The B two bombing 12 mop bombs on for com facility and two other bombs on the facility that maybe this enriched uranium was were a great, great, great success. Ask me if it's a 100% elimination of the facility. You cannot do it unless maybe they needed to use, I don't know, another 21. And I'm not sure it'll do a big change. It's a big, big destruction for this facility, and it's more important. We have to make sure that no one will be able to go and to reach and to come into this facility to try to do things. Now about this, I'm not going to leave these questions behind me about this 409 kilo enrich uranium that you remember. We talked a lot

Speaker 2 (00:34:36):

About

Speaker 1 (00:34:37):

That without dealing with them. We are not finishing the program because we have to deal with the material. We have to deal with the enrich uranium, and then we have to deal with the weaponization that we did very, very good. This four other nine kilo were in underground tunnels, inan for many, many, many months. They used to move them. Now since this knowledge of the intelligence that they were inan, three things could happen. And believe me, everyone that is giving you now answers. And what happened is guessing. I'm not sure that even the people that are responsible for this intelligence, not exactly all the details, but it could be that the 409 left in Isan, it could be that part of it or all of it were moved a few days before the attack to photo. Maybe they saw that photo is more protected than this one, but believe me, municipal, it was also in very, very deep protected tunnels.

(00:35:44):

And then there is the question, did they remove some of all of these materials from photo before the American attack that this 409 kilo can be now in three different places under the rebels of eastbound, under the rebels of four door or in some warehouse or place that the Iranians took some of it or all of it. I probably believe that if they did it, it's only a small amount of it, 10 or 20%. But this was the assumption. But even so for sure, the intelligence, if they don't know already, they'll know in the future where those materials are and they'll take care of it. So believe me, those are 4 0 9 were very important before today. We have to understand what is the meaning. And this is why I didn't like the DIA report. They said that the Iran is three, four months from a bomb.

(00:36:47):

It is a wrong message that coming out from an intelligence facility or intelligent establishment, they took the worst case of the worst case. And even so the n say the tools, the worst case of the worst case that there are enough fish and material, which to 60%, they maybe have enough central foods that were stored in some warehouses. They can take this to a stein facility and maybe come to an enough one or two bomb, 90% in rich revenue. I'm sure that Israel US won't allow them, but maybe. So what? This is not a bomb.

(00:37:31):

You have to take from this bomb. And as you just mentioned before, you have to make from it a award. Now the facility in East Pan that are doing the big conversion, because in East Pan there is a conversion facility to take the yellow cake in the beginning, make for me again, going into the beginning of the enrichment facility. And then at the end when you have an highly enriched uranium, you take it, you go toan again, and you do a reverse conversion. So making from this enrich uranium something that you can make aran metal, that is a very, very important part of building the world. There are many other things to build the world. Not only the one metal. You have all the things that the scientists that Israel killed during this attack were involved in. And we saw them doing some of those

Speaker 2 (00:38:26):

Weaponization weaponization

Speaker 1 (00:38:28):

Walking under an umbrella of an academic research or something for civilian user enrichment. So this is the real truth about these materials and about fordo andan,

Speaker 2 (00:38:45):

Okay? But a ceasefire means that the mullahs are still in charge of Iran and they clearly have not changed their long-term goal of destroying Israel, death to Israel. Death to America. They will likely, okay, lick their wounds and then attempt to rebuild the military to achieve their goal of nuclear capability. So given that the only way to end the risk to Israel isn't the only way regime change, isn't that the only way that we can stop worrying about this,

Speaker 1 (00:39:29):

Dr. We are coming again, looks like you know all the material. You're coming again to a very, very important question about the future. We have a ceasefire. Now the question is what kind of ceasefire we will have? The good one if we can achieve it is the ceasefire in what I call it the Hezbollah model that we have now in the north that when we see an imminent sweat, we don't have to ask anyone. There is three partners there, the us, the French, and the Lebanese that are overseeing the ceasefire. But if there is an imminent sweat, we see some Hezbollah bringing weapons or trying to go to a destroyed weaponization facility, we are killing them. We did more than 200 attacks already under the cease file without any reaction, the Hezbollah. So assuming we have something like this with Iran, wow, it'll be great.

(00:40:32):

I'm not sure it'll be so simple, but this is the concept that should work because I'm sure that of course, if we see the, I don't when you moving or people are trying to come back to four door or to naan to respond and try to rebuild it, we'll have to do something. This is something that we'll have to discuss with the United States in the coming days. Now, about your question about the Muus, yes, there are mu in Iran, the big one is the hamina. Believe me, he is looking around and he's crying. I am not sure he went out from his a hundred meter bunker that he was staying there all over the wall, making sure that his life is safe. But he is going out looking around all of his friends, all of them, no matter if they are, are from the military, from the IRDC and even from his political chain, most of them are out. They're dead. So you have to look around and see what he build. Now we talked about the regime change. Believe me, it was very clear declared Israel. We didn't have in the same, I think the us the regime change was not one of the war goals.

(00:42:04):

Of course, what you say is totally correct. If someone want a definitely long-term or solution to this nuclear sweat from Iran or other countries like Iran, the only way to prevent it for long range, for long time, for long endurance is by making sure that the regime, that the government of this organization does not want a nuclear program. Because while they will continue to say, this nuclear program is part of our national plan, is part of our national security, that they'll continue to work on this program. And while they're continuing working on this program, it's becoming, again, a threat to Israel. And while it is a threat to Israel, Israel will have to move and to make sure that we are doing something with this threat. Fortunately enough, now it's a message outside. The message is outside the United States joined the war again, nuclear Iran, the decision of President Trump, the very brave decision, and as you say, they took it unanimously alone, almost alone, talking with his advisors.

(00:43:29):

Some of them told him. Some of them told him, no, this is an internal problem or decision inside the us. But he took the decision and he attacked the nuclear facilities in the nuclear program of Iran. This declaration is out. US is not going to allow Iran to become a nuclear country together with Israel, but us is leading and we like it when they're leading, especially in this Israel, because we are telling for many years that the nuclear Iran is not a sweat only on Israel. Nuclear Iran is a threat of the world together with a threat on all American citizens having an intercontinental ballistic missile with a nuclear world on its head. It's a very, very, very sweat will like North Korea, like other countries that airplane with Russia, with China, there are superpowers, there are agreements. It's always a threat. But it's not like having a nuclear bomb and missiles in a country that you know that is controlled by MUAs, that their logic is not the same of the logic of every person.

(00:44:43):

So we have to make sure that the Iranian future government or people that are ruling Iran will understand. Hopefully, I'm not sure it'll happen. They'll understand that it's better to take the human resources and natural resources and capability of the great Iranian people who don't have anything with them. Iranian people, they're great people. Their problem is their rulers and their leadership. If they'll decide to change the leadership, and you call it regime change, okay, let's call it regime change. It's not part of the war goals of Israel and the us. We didn't announce. We want to see regime change as part of this war. But if it all happened very good, the war brought some more goals that we didn't put on the table.

Speaker 2 (00:45:43):

Regime change would be wonderful to have a peaceful country, to have a country run by leaders whose goal is not to kill us. That would be fantastic. Exactly. And we had that when the Shah was in charge. They were an ally of Israel and ally of America. Now, what can Israel and possibly the US do to help a regime change occur? Now, it can't just be the people rising up in the streets. It doesn't happen that way. They have no weapons. Alright? You can't throw out rulers of a country when they have all the weapons and they have the military and they have the police. I think it's impossible. So what possible things could the Israel and us do undercover to help the people? Now, there must be military groups in Iran who don't like the theocracy. There must be some of those. I'm not saying we should, but what could be done to help a regime change occur?

Speaker 1 (00:46:55):

Look, I waited for this question. Now this talk that we just did for almost an hour, I couldn't do with you in the first or second episode before the war because many of the things that I just talked about were not public area. There was not something that we can talk to the public. It was all classified information that now after the war is revealed. I talk when I'm saying I cannot talk, it doesn't mean that we have it or we don't have it, but right.

Speaker 2 (00:47:36):

I

Speaker 1 (00:47:36):

Understand what Israel or US or other people like you, and you see the

Speaker 2 (00:47:42):

Organization

Speaker 1 (00:47:42):

Of the D behind, there are things that maybe can be done. And as you say, exactly, they are undercover. So things that are undercover, if you talk about, are not undercover anymore. So I think that we have to live talking about what we should do in order to help a regime change in Iran. Let's leave it in the dark. Let's leave it in the places that we're not talking about. And maybe to happen, maybe not. When I'm talking about this, not mean that Israel is doing something about it or not. This belong to the thing that, for example, if you would ask me two weeks ago about what is Narnia program, I would kill you because you know this world. So what I mean is that there are areas that it's not time yet to talk about. Maybe there will be time to talk about it in, I don't know.

(00:48:44):

Episode 222 of Dr. Bob determined when something like this will happen. I think that the people of Iran, they're very, very, very well trained, well learned, very, very sophisticated academy and industry in Iran. They should understand that instead of having a flourishing Iran, one of the best economical economics in the world, believe me, it can happen because they have a lot of natural resources that they can use. But when you take more than 50% of your budget and spend it on supporting OT building, nuclear program, building your army, I hope some people, maybe some of them mos, I don't think so because they don't see the real truth. Because look how many went out from his bunker or maybe inside and declared that he's blessing the Iranian people or the big victory on the Israeli and the us.

(00:49:54):

Leave the nonsense out. You know that you are suffered a lot, that people in the Iraq were killed, that Iran is now in a very, very, very devastating situation and he declared a victory. So of course, if it'll be, I don't see any good things coming out of it. Now, again, I'm not calling to do something about ene. There was a debate if Israel wanted to kill him, not want to kill him. I don't want to go into this debate. It's political debate. But I think that the Romanian people should understand what happened to their, and it's in their end to decide what will be the future of this really important country. They can be one of the, they have a lot of historical sites. I wish I could go and do a visit in Tehran today. I can do a one-way ticket visit in Teran. But I wish in the future there would be many, many Israels lived in Tehran in the seventies, the helped Iran economy. Iran bought many, many things from Israel, and it was a big, big exchange between Israel and Iran until the Islamic Revolution in the late seventies. So I'm not calling for regime change. I'll be very glad if there will be regime change.

(00:51:16):

But it should come from inside. Of course, it should not come from the outside.

Speaker 2 (00:51:21):

Okay, let's move on, Jacob, to the effect that this war is having and will have on neighboring countries. Now, I've been told that in the Arab culture, a lot of respect is given to what's called the strong horse. Now, Israel is clearly now that strong horse in the Middle East. So how do you envision the other Arab countries responding to Israel's military success? And let's take them one by one. Start with Lebanon. What is the likely near term effect in Lebanon of Israel's success?

Speaker 1 (00:52:02):

Okay, I'll answer your question, but allow me to do it in another order. First of all, you're totally right. The first line in Israeli national security strategy that Prime Minister is using every time the first line is in the Middle East. Weak one does not survive. If you want to survive in the Middle East, in the jungle, we are a villa in the jungle. Everyone want to enter our V. If you want to survive, you have to be strong. What happened now in Iran, we proved that we are strong. We're not just talking. We know how to operate and take action when needed. Of course, it'll affect on the Middle East and everyone around us. Everyone understand the power of Israel, our capabilities, our technological capabilities, our ingenuity in inventing new thing, it's starting in the Academy Tech New on Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, others, and in the IDF, the D, DR and D and others, it's all around us. Mossad, IDF, air Force, intelligent everyone. So everyone understand that, don't bother, don't go into fight with Israel. It won't be good for you.

(00:53:25):

The first country that we have to talk about, it's not Lebanon or Syria, but we'll come to them of course in Saudi and others. The first one is the Hamas and Gaza. Look, we finished almost all the problems finished. We are in a good position with concerning all the problems around us. But we still have this problem in Gaza and this problem in Gaza mostly is because of the hostages that we still have 50 of our people still there and we don't want to do actions like in other places that will endanger their life. But I think that if I was a Hamas leader now, and the problem is that there are not many leaders left. We just killed yesterday. One of their last really influencers leaders in Gaza just was killed I think today or yesterday now. But if I was the leader and I, look what happened in Iran, I'll tell myself, look, we have to do a deal with this country.

(00:54:30):

So I hope because he looks around and is Patron is the one that gave him money, training the food, everything. Weapons in knowledge is not there anymore. It is there. But I don't think Iran first priority now when they'll try to recuperate, will be to continue supporting ot. I hope they're not doing it. I'm not sure because you know, Iran logic is not the same as the normal people logic. But if I was a Hamas, I would go now to an agreement with Israel. Lebanon is a good example because they're now understanding the meaning of power. They understand what happened to them. They are in a very, very devastating situation. The country is totally going. They need a lot of money to spend in order to become, again, a country. The good thing is that we see a starting of the government and the Lebanese army understanding, doing things against the Hezbollah group that are still there.

(00:55:37):

There are still a lot of Hezbollah. They had 200,000, the missiles, assuming we eliminated 120, 1 30, they still have one of the biggest arsenal of missiles in the world, but they are not doing anything. When Iran calls them, they didn't answer the phone. So of course, if I was in Iran Lule, I would never put the money. You belong to the industry. You always say ROI. Return of investment, the ROI of Iran, investments in Lebanon came out as a very bad investment. The same goes for Syria. Asad regime is down. All the money that Iran gave to the Asad regime for many, many years and to support his army together or not together with Hezbollah is out. I don't know. People are saying that maybe Syria will be the next country that will join Abraham Accord. I don't believe it's coming tomorrow. But if they will show that they are serious in running for a peace and not for war, why not?

(00:56:46):

But we have still to remember that this Ani Al, he called himself today, he is a terrorist. He grew up from Al-Qaeda, and then I go around us. The Saudis understand that it's good to do business with Israel. I think that the progress with Saudi, again, because we are very close, some people say even sin noir. It was one of his reasons to go on October seven, was he saw the situation between Israel and Saudi coming to a peace agreement. I don't know if this was one of his reasons, but Saudi, I think the progress will happen after we will solve the problem in Gaza because they have an internal problem. While there is a war in Gaza, they cannot show themselves as part of the agreement with Israel. And when the Saudis will do something, believe me, all the Gulf countries around them will join this peace process.

(00:57:50):

And again, I'm picturing here something for the heaven in the Middle East. Who else? Maybe we'll have good S coming after some very, very, very bad s. But what happened in Israel? What happened now in the war? What happened in the last two years when we'll finish the war in Gaza? Believe me, Dr. Bob, we should do it, but we should do it. When we get back all of our 50 hostages, we cannot leave them there. So it's in the end of the Hamas to decide they're going to give them to us in a deal that probably will spur their lives. We'll go out of Gaza and maybe the reconstruction of Gaza can start, but all the other countries surround us, all the Arab countries, they want peace with Israel. They still have the Palestinian problem. When the war in Gaza will finish, people will see that there are no Palestinian problem. We can solve it in many, many other ways, not only by declaring a Palestinian state. I don't think Israel can do it, not with this government, and I'm not sure it's good for Israel. But peace is very good for Israel with everyone around us. And I think what happened that we are talking about in the last hour can help bring peace to our region.

Speaker 2 (00:59:13):

Jacob, thank you for spending time with me today to share your very timely knowledge about the war between Israel and Iran and the effect on the Middle East. And thank you so much more for the sound advice that you have given and that you continue to provide to key decision makers in Israel and in the United States. Thank you. Thank

Speaker 1 (00:59:38):

You very much for having me in your show. And I hope that we gave to the audience and for everyone that want to know what's really going on in Israel after the war, a good view of what is going on. Thank you very much, Dr. Bob and everyone that is involved in your initiative to bring this episodes alive. Thank you.

Speaker 2 (00:59:57):

And thank you again for this your third episode with us. And I think there's going to be a fourth, Jacob. Good evening,

Speaker 1 (01:00:05):

Maybe. Okay. Thank you. Bye.

Speaker 2 (01:00:08):

Thank you for watching. And if you enjoyed this episode of Life Lessons with Dr. Bob, please subscribe and you'll be automatically notified of future podcasts in this series.

Speaker 3 (01:00:22):

Thanks so much for listening to another episode of Life Lessons with Dr. Bob. If you enjoy these interviews with some of today's most influential thought leaders, please follow and rate the show on your favorite podcast platform. And don't forget, you can also watch each episode on YouTube as well. We'll see you next time.